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今日下午3：30贾陆英老师《论语》问答录在老秘网QQ群“重温经典读书会”准时开讲。本期学习讨论《论语》为政篇第1章，网友们的参与热情高涨。老猫出差刚回，现整理如下： $ M- b; J1 _) fmso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">今天下午，我们学习讨论《论语》为政篇第0 ^" t5 c1 e) P/ f% Q
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/ z- X4 M0 @, S7 Q7 i4 B0 Smso-font-kerning:0pt">子曰：0 ?( M, D9 n. s) r7 n: j1 i* qmso-font-kerning:0pt">"0 U7 B1 L$ A3 pmso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;' m, K: S( P6 C3 `8 d" R: T
mso-font-kerning:0pt">为政以德，譬如北辰，居其所而众星共之。, C+ c+ A* i" w: I$ f1 I n
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" E8 E1 ?( Q% I, U, `. MTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">北辰：指北极星。所：处所、位置。共：同拱，环绕。比喻众多的人簇拥着一个被他们尊敬的人，或许多东西围绕着一个中心。4 U7 B0 V6 i' M- J! o7 _mso-font-kerning:0pt">
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">靠高尚的品德来施政，这样的为政者好比是北极星，居于自己的位置上，众多的星星都环绕着它。, O# e4 j; g2 P3 a+ Emso-font-kerning:0pt">”
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">答：孔子以北辰居其中而众星环绕作比喻，深刻揭示了具有高尚品德对于为政者的重要性，具体、形象、生动地表达了孔子的德治思想。当时，在如何治理国家的问题上，主要有两种主张：其一是依靠政令刑法，强制百姓服从；其二是通过道德教化，引导百姓走上正道。孔子主张后者，强调为政者首先要以自己高尚的品德为榜样，尔后才能教化、影响、引导民众。 I I" h# a. r6 H/ |6 kmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服* Y- S* y8 n& N) f* ^
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">仁政具体指的是什么？道德层面的东西我觉得都太虚了，没有一个标准。同志们认为呢 j- K! [: {& V4 i, @4 [mso-font-kerning:0pt"> ; }+ }- L5 \7 Q2 N
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0 P/ T' f8 K0 O- E0 @" n- }& @mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服+ G! x2 w- K" W, K! z4 vmso-font-kerning:0pt">——7 |: ?6 u& j8 Y7 S( a. A4 n' Afont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;4 g0 `2 i8 o8 v G' T" _
mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的，这就是孔子说的8 N7 ^: [; ? H& c& x
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3 w% c" h/ w$ B& G, @mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。9 W0 G5 o+ }* R+ z5 A/ [4 P
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- s; I: d: E; A& g0 Y1 r7 bmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？孔子的人性不分善恶，他信奉有教无类。我认为是孔子信奉的是德治礼治，而不是德治法治，儒法结合是后人的创新' ?% [) {/ F$ ^0 [
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9 M/ @# S. \- S0 T: BTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒家法家绝对是治国两大法宝，是不是有说内法外王。希望依靠道德来治理国家。道德高尚至极只能是圣人，而不是君王。君王要有仁爱之心，但不能妄想通过道德来治理国家吧。干部要清明、清廉、清白: f& b- L9 s' c4 {& amso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想。儒法相结合不是从以往执政者所言的外儒内法。应该是在去除封建统治者为维护统治所宣扬的糟粕基础上，留下儒家所宣扬的大仁、大爱的思想，在结合现代化的法制、民主的精神，才是真正的儒法结合。一味从古，不如不学7 ~1 o7 j9 W& y& a; V
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6 S4 R# W) p' _0 l+ Pmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">这一思想的文化渊源，就是德治、仁政思想。德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？( J& e- w8 i" ~' N# Cmso-font-kerning:0pt">——2 J: b) a6 ]# ]0 ~9 Nfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;
7 |* R: b4 @3 ]3 [& N) |mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的。为政者之德，还要突出以身作则，正人先正己，为下属作出表率。5 m4 k, F5 w+ S! t
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">“贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想”; A( x# @# m# q4 w. B6 m c
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# ~& u3 @8 z/ W+ Fmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">本身就包含着德治与法治相结合的观点。1 t4 g% e2 B- i. }mso-font-kerning:0pt"> 0 K' v3 F" b8 S/ V" P0 ~ b
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8 L% S; }6 T( d2 qTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">政令刑法重在社会上的约束，讲究实效，不遵守即被处罚，道德教化重在精神上、舆论上的约束，不遵守会被谴责和孤立，但不是收到立竿见影的实质处罚% E. p! c) m1 Z9 V/ ? f& @' D9 |
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我认为国治才能民安，所以教化没人人外儒是必要的，每个人也都有义务做到外儒！民安后如何能够实现久安呢？这就需要内法的作用啦！& t) o3 A3 Z4 b1 B5 K- Mmso-font-kerning:0pt"> - h' w9 w3 ]+ v) T3 s) k
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# C- ^( }$ `3 C( p+ P; H( C9 bTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我觉得现在很多人被大众观念里的道德观绑架了，就出现了所谓的装和假% a- n Q$ h& P! X$ I0 n( amso-font-kerning:0pt"> , }9 S- f- a k8 q2 \0 X4 f0 v
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒学是以伦理道德思想为特质的观念体系，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的显著特征之一。儒学是以礼乐文明为中心的文化系统，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的又一显著特征。现在确有一些人认为，道德修养方面的问题是 q% h( a4 h3 G( r2 O' ]" E0 R. Hmso-font-kerning:0pt">“. |& ]3 h, k2 F0 f$ B5 f8 rfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;
{' H6 Z' A- T6 mmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">细节问题6 L) M" G# J) O P
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">千里之堤，溃于蚁穴% x2 s6 J; z, c A8 H
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