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今日下午3：30贾陆英老师《论语》问答录在老秘网QQ群“重温经典读书会”准时开讲。本期学习讨论《论语》为政篇第1章，网友们的参与热情高涨。老猫出差刚回，现整理如下： % z1 U- |) `- D3 Y/ b" dmso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:( j: v+ g4 v' E8 Z; G' v# }
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! p s' w6 b- h- j8 k& cTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">今天下午，我们学习讨论《论语》为政篇第5 ?6 L+ A+ ^% d( p% p; ^
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( F+ f o* L* N/ U7 }6 Gmso-font-kerning:0pt">子曰：2 Y& F& b7 Z3 Y6 r) `1 `
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">为政以德，譬如北辰，居其所而众星共之。% S0 R8 H; h" g% U
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">北辰：指北极星。所：处所、位置。共：同拱，环绕。比喻众多的人簇拥着一个被他们尊敬的人，或许多东西围绕着一个中心。$ i$ i$ m6 I+ f
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8 B& Z# h7 h4 E" V4 _/ v& Jmso-font-kerning:0pt">孔子说：- Y5 N0 p. s+ ^# S, V
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?8 I! k6 `' @! ^2 \/ N D- Umso-font-kerning:0pt">靠高尚的品德来施政，这样的为政者好比是北极星，居于自己的位置上，众多的星星都环绕着它。% m: E: s$ {! k/ {4 U7 n0 K
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# d! g) u, O1 j* _7 kmso-font-kerning:0pt">问：这句话表达了孔子的什么主张？, v1 i, \" J7 k6 D& G! hcolor:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">答：孔子以北辰居其中而众星环绕作比喻，深刻揭示了具有高尚品德对于为政者的重要性，具体、形象、生动地表达了孔子的德治思想。当时，在如何治理国家的问题上，主要有两种主张：其一是依靠政令刑法，强制百姓服从；其二是通过道德教化，引导百姓走上正道。孔子主张后者，强调为政者首先要以自己高尚的品德为榜样，尔后才能教化、影响、引导民众。; V* E" y2 D5 U% N" A! x& z1 `' Cmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服. ]8 F+ x! k5 J& y3 |mso-font-kerning:0pt"> * ~2 G9 g! L7 b
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">仁政具体指的是什么？道德层面的东西我觉得都太虚了，没有一个标准。同志们认为呢0 E& j0 }3 s' T
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服( v& \1 d3 t" ]7 u+ I3 e# r3 Bmso-font-kerning:0pt">——" S; z$ ?: `- E/ X3 ?
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4 p7 ~2 ~3 n1 \) s! [' x3 kmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的，这就是孔子说的# e6 b( Q: N7 y! k
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。9 @7 p v8 Q% w$ B- u
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒家法家绝对是治国两大法宝，是不是有说内法外王。希望依靠道德来治理国家。道德高尚至极只能是圣人，而不是君王。君王要有仁爱之心，但不能妄想通过道德来治理国家吧。干部要清明、清廉、清白) B" H$ ~3 Y* q2 C$ B7 w0 rmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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- s2 W. o$ e7 lTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想。儒法相结合不是从以往执政者所言的外儒内法。应该是在去除封建统治者为维护统治所宣扬的糟粕基础上，留下儒家所宣扬的大仁、大爱的思想，在结合现代化的法制、民主的精神，才是真正的儒法结合。一味从古，不如不学9 ?# n# z, c( e3 H& _- L5 p( i' lmso-font-kerning:0pt"> & f: @4 L$ Q U" G; f4 [
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2 B' A7 E5 Q* N8 }Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">现在不是都在强调以民为本，为人民服务么8 q. Z+ d* Y0 _5 M' L1 q% pmso-font-kerning:0pt">——! g6 y+ P+ u& g# T7 h1 h% cfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;7 ]7 Z8 R8 t8 X/ e. R4 S/ D
mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">这一思想的文化渊源，就是德治、仁政思想。德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？& a; H5 J. V4 {$ |0 B4 |, }mso-font-kerning:0pt">——+ A$ i% W g0 A! G
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的。为政者之德，还要突出以身作则，正人先正己，为下属作出表率。0 n: H" V0 O6 M0pt"> 9 u; I7 W: N4 N( ^
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( ?+ N3 Z T+ l3 c7 jmso-font-kerning:0pt">“贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想”8 b" _. G1 b8 V9 \- d7 ]& Gmso-font-kerning:0pt">——: P$ O( ^6 N, h% M+ u5 Hfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;
9 \0 o O/ [2 nmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">基本赞同。孔子所说+ Y' u2 Q% s/ C: |. _
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。+ J" |- ?& c4 e
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" v) @9 d& X/ e$ h- s8 Fmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本善) F9 S) m& f' @0 v- z# vmso-font-kerning:0pt"> # v$ V# U/ \+ K. j1 [mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本恶。人性本善，礼仪道德，天下大和。人性本恶，礼仪道德，与虎谋皮啊3 @2 G0 G+ d. F5 }4 U- qmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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7 u8 p1 ] [0 h: h% Q+ A- \Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">政令刑法重在社会上的约束，讲究实效，不遵守即被处罚，道德教化重在精神上、舆论上的约束，不遵守会被谴责和孤立，但不是收到立竿见影的实质处罚9 l9 j# t) Y$ A* n: n
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( p8 X* a# K3 ~! YTahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">小风飕飕地：- f, i, v! @6 Q4 `0pt"> 1 P- y; f9 K" w: B5 n% u w
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; H" }) A4 S& ]/ o; E, OTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我认为国治才能民安，所以教化没人人外儒是必要的，每个人也都有义务做到外儒！民安后如何能够实现久安呢？这就需要内法的作用啦！, z! R! n$ m8 [9 k5 Y+ A! c
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$ v# B1 t# a& F/ f0 mTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我觉得现在很多人被大众观念里的道德观绑架了，就出现了所谓的装和假0 z" c. N4 D; q
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# m) i( w+ W/ \, ^+ e( ?. T; _2 FTahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">贾陆英：1 \/ p W* J/ U: v+ d# J4 [% Y0pt"> . v# [- D& @* \ |' B
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒学是以伦理道德思想为特质的观念体系，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的显著特征之一。儒学是以礼乐文明为中心的文化系统，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的又一显著特征。现在确有一些人认为，道德修养方面的问题是3 @& k; @+ }. q! P1 s
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">细节问题) l- D, L" r8 H( k) cmso-font-kerning:0pt">”1 A$ S$ @1 m% }5 }3 ]1 v% x$ J
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，没有必要小题大做。这种认识是十分错误和有害的。/ t: e6 n' Z. e* bmso-font-kerning:0pt">“& e/ o! f" Z. S9 i0 a# P# bfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;3 w' W) x; l+ x# X4 k5 N+ B
mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">千里之堤，溃于蚁穴. k- T9 a. I6 ~9 Q
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，少数人走上违法犯罪道路，往往是从道德品质上出问题开始的。没有职业操守，就不可能做到爱岗敬业。我们培养敬业精神，一定要紧紧抓住加强道德修养这个重点。
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