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今日下午3：30贾陆英老师《论语》问答录在老秘网QQ群“重温经典读书会”准时开讲。本期学习讨论《论语》为政篇第1章，网友们的参与热情高涨。老猫出差刚回，现整理如下： & ?% Q1 L2 I. r4 D0 ?+ T% x
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">今天下午，我们学习讨论《论语》为政篇第9 A4 c! L/ J' O/ Y: y+ Y! }3 {/ Rmso-font-kerning:0pt">13 l* U1 l; H- l
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6 O; W" H0 B% ?# L' X% smso-font-kerning:0pt">为政以德，譬如北辰，居其所而众星共之。/ R/ b3 y2 A: y
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">北辰：指北极星。所：处所、位置。共：同拱，环绕。比喻众多的人簇拥着一个被他们尊敬的人，或许多东西围绕着一个中心。0 j0 n( S+ E2 W' P' a' D
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; Q# N& u6 T& M2 e' Jmso-font-kerning:0pt">靠高尚的品德来施政，这样的为政者好比是北极星，居于自己的位置上，众多的星星都环绕着它。" i# f* ` j( z. K! _5 W4 ^& m- }) Cmso-font-kerning:0pt">”
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0 v* G7 X0 o: fmso-font-kerning:0pt">问：这句话表达了孔子的什么主张？4 p, l. Y% X- Dcolor:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">答：孔子以北辰居其中而众星环绕作比喻，深刻揭示了具有高尚品德对于为政者的重要性，具体、形象、生动地表达了孔子的德治思想。当时，在如何治理国家的问题上，主要有两种主张：其一是依靠政令刑法，强制百姓服从；其二是通过道德教化，引导百姓走上正道。孔子主张后者，强调为政者首先要以自己高尚的品德为榜样，尔后才能教化、影响、引导民众。2 W$ c5 A2 X/ ?" v, d% zmso-font-kerning:0pt"> ) `0 s8 U+ e5 b3 C* \6 i5 X# C4 y
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服- j# m8 c Z$ s- D% i' I5 P9 hmso-font-kerning:0pt"> $ I% U9 T( P4 u8 v
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' h( j7 }0 S6 k+ f4 a J' ETahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">仁政具体指的是什么？道德层面的东西我觉得都太虚了，没有一个标准。同志们认为呢: u" o2 D1 ~; G" J3 ~
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4 J* o u# ~( J+ Bmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以政令刑法，民治而心不服，以礼仪道德，民治而心服* H- n8 c: l8 L8 M" `4 `mso-font-kerning:0pt">——- Z1 x3 g& s- ?/ R) B* `: }) u
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的，这就是孔子说的+ U& G! B9 j8 s6 s4 jmso-font-kerning:0pt">"' y4 F. b; v$ b+ Z* v$ B8 R' i
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。2 S; y9 y( ?; `9 {- pmso-font-kerning:0pt">" \- e8 D+ Z/ q$ i8 Z
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8 Q: F! g4 x+ PTahoma;color:#006EFE;mso-font-kerning:0pt">无心随风：2 C/ h! e4 \, Z8 _
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6 I: i2 `3 L5 ^5 J: ?/ \mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？孔子的人性不分善恶，他信奉有教无类。我认为是孔子信奉的是德治礼治，而不是德治法治，儒法结合是后人的创新# ~* |! n: t ?9 }
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒家法家绝对是治国两大法宝，是不是有说内法外王。希望依靠道德来治理国家。道德高尚至极只能是圣人，而不是君王。君王要有仁爱之心，但不能妄想通过道德来治理国家吧。干部要清明、清廉、清白, x9 q4 s6 q5 E0 Y5 R; ^% ?mso-font-kerning:0pt"> h8 `* a* n5 j
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想。儒法相结合不是从以往执政者所言的外儒内法。应该是在去除封建统治者为维护统治所宣扬的糟粕基础上，留下儒家所宣扬的大仁、大爱的思想，在结合现代化的法制、民主的精神，才是真正的儒法结合。一味从古，不如不学' F. C9 ~# e4 l4 i
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' Y0 h% Z [+ \Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">现在不是都在强调以民为本，为人民服务么4 r" {: B6 R, r4 L( l9 c' W4 Rmso-font-kerning:0pt">——# Z$ j* E1 E* n/ z
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">这一思想的文化渊源，就是德治、仁政思想。德是孔子所说的君子之道吗？1 M/ \1 J" D. C3 umso-font-kerning:0pt">——" P, l% w; T% ?7 J# Z% ]8 Lfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;1 [ e% P; j9 f: I9 w E- M) N
mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">是的。为政者之德，还要突出以身作则，正人先正己，为下属作出表率。: [' Y( f8 M; P P9 B! j
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mso-font-kerning:0pt">“贾老师，学生认为：政令刑罚、道德教化二者不可偏其一，无道德教化，民暴而戾，无政令刑罚，民散而慢。总而言之，应用儒家思想来做人，用发家思想来做事，这也符合我们的辩证法思想”0 G/ t9 ^: i2 D+ W9 M
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">基本赞同。孔子所说1 Z1 \+ _' p, T, T8 K2 v% a7 A# Y+ D+ n
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- P$ f$ r* B o3 j1 Y5 M; Y+ b& emso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">道之以政，齐之以刑，民免而无耻；道之以德，齐之以礼，有耻且格。0 B; c2 v& U, C- G: A6 ^0 N
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s/ E: l- U& i8 O8 @/ g1 Y5 {4 xmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">本身就包含着德治与法治相结合的观点。* j, w I6 V; V% Q! Q* |
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% y# K0 b ]0 H! S6 r- n& FTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">以礼仪道德，民治而心服. N5 ~- A) [/ K' O0pt"> C( h& t" Y, `1 yfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;+ L* V2 F. V3 u4 E' I$ ]' _
mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本善: l: u# l& ^% Y# wmso-font-kerning:0pt"> ! a; k* U3 O6 f( ]7 Zmso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
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0 t& [) N+ S( K1 Nmso-font-kerning:0pt">人性本恶。人性本善，礼仪道德，天下大和。人性本恶，礼仪道德，与虎谋皮啊8 e- {! Z2 v$ E# F8 smso-font-kerning:0pt">
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">政令刑法重在社会上的约束，讲究实效，不遵守即被处罚，道德教化重在精神上、舆论上的约束，不遵守会被谴责和孤立，但不是收到立竿见影的实质处罚/ j/ o: q; `3 P) Amso-font-kerning:0pt"> 6 c4 G x8 g3 t
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8 b" w4 Z* Q1 K. qTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我认为国治才能民安，所以教化没人人外儒是必要的，每个人也都有义务做到外儒！民安后如何能够实现久安呢？这就需要内法的作用啦！1 ^( C" H# [4 l0 @8 Xmso-font-kerning:0pt"> ) _3 n% j( r, ~. b0 X5 w
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Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">我觉得现在很多人被大众观念里的道德观绑架了，就出现了所谓的装和假2 R( t0 P5 A& y% C2 Kmso-font-kerning:0pt">
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. u$ a$ J. ~9 v5 lTahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">儒学是以伦理道德思想为特质的观念体系，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的显著特征之一。儒学是以礼乐文明为中心的文化系统，这是它区别于世界上其他文明的又一显著特征。现在确有一些人认为，道德修养方面的问题是8 j- N' h q0 v2 |+ U- M, } gmso-font-kerning:0pt">“1 [' u. v8 s/ @& Z) W* e" wfont-family:宋体;mso-ascii-font-family:Tahoma;mso-hansi-font-family:Tahoma;. @1 P6 q) `4 B! Y( g+ c
mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">细节问题$ O/ s, b7 Y7 O: Y, p! xmso-font-kerning:0pt">”, G1 ]& n8 ]7 ]0 m7 Q
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) b) N$ h/ `0 r4 X, R5 B. r3 Rmso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，没有必要小题大做。这种认识是十分错误和有害的。% j8 ~, e/ Z9 [' ?
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">千里之堤，溃于蚁穴8 g% v( D* m& p g$ Cmso-font-kerning:0pt">”( G( a" D( n. s/ y h* V' |6 w
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mso-bidi-font-family:Tahoma;color:black;mso-font-kerning:0pt">，少数人走上违法犯罪道路，往往是从道德品质上出问题开始的。没有职业操守，就不可能做到爱岗敬业。我们培养敬业精神，一定要紧紧抓住加强道德修养这个重点。
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